Balance Druid Idol swapping POST 2.4

Druid class discussion.

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Tachion
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Balance Druid Idol swapping POST 2.4

Post#1 » Wed Apr 02, 2008 10:16 am

Thought I would share my results. All results are from Dr. Boom:

Just did some testing POST 2.4 w/ idol swapping. The absolute best cast cycle for me is:

3x - Macro 1
1x - Macro 2
1x - Moonfire

W/ slightly nerfed gear (not using the crusade card), my results were from 3 entire mana pools: 930, 905, 910 DPS self buffed

Other results were:

4x SF, 1x IS: 840, 815, 830 DPS
4x SF, 1x MF: 830, 815, 840 DPS
3x SF, 1x MF w/ idol swapping 730, 715, 740 DPS
5x SF w/ idol swapping: 730, 740, 715 DPS

the macros are:

Your cast cycle using idol swapping would be the following:

macro #1 x3

#showtooltip
/cast Starfire
/equip [noequipped: Ivory Idol of the Moongoddess] Ivory Idol of the Moongoddess

Macro #2 x1

#showtooltip
/cast Starfire
/equip [noequipped: Idol of the Unseen Moon] Idol of the Unseen Moon

Moonfire x1

There are other ways to do the starfire idol swap, but I have found them inconsistent for me. I lose on average 1/8th to 1/4 of GCD time with them. So im sticking with my way above...
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Lealla
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Post#2 » Wed Apr 02, 2008 11:00 am

I'm going to look at buying the idol and using one of these rotations. Moonfire is now pretty much part of my standard DPS rotation as long as there's a Shadow Priest in the group, so this will hopefully work out well.

My take on the macro would look like this, since I like combining stuff:

Code: Select all

#showtooltip
/use [mod:shift] 14
/use [mod:shift] 13
/cast Starfire
/equip [mod:ctrl,noequipped:Idol of the Unseen Moon] Idol of the Unseen Moon; [nomod:ctrl,noequipped:Ivory Idol of the Moongoddess] Ivory Idol of the Moongoddess


This way, Shift still pops my trinkets, and if I hold Ctrl, I switch to the Moonfire idol, while not holding Ctrl equips the Starfire idol.
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kites
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Post#3 » Wed Apr 02, 2008 11:02 am

I love the way Tach cant resist coming back to the bountiful green pastures that is YaWa

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Lealla
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Post#4 » Mon Apr 07, 2008 10:17 am

By the way, Idol of the Raven Goddess adds 20 spell critical strike rating to the Moonkin aura in 2.4, up from 9 previously*. This makes it far better in a stacked raid group than the Starfire idol. I'd have to do some hard math to see how it interacts with Idol of the Unseen Moon. Obviously the latter is superior for soloing or 5-mans, but a T5 level Boomkin can do that without any problems already.

*It also adds 20 critical strike rating to the Leader of the Pack aura, and 44 healing to the Tree of Life aura.
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Stask
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Post#5 » Mon Apr 07, 2008 11:36 am

Hmmm, rolling lifeblooms are what I do in raids, but could the Raven Goddess Idol be more useful in 5-mans? I need to look into that.
"I am unworthy of any respect. True story." -Brulan

Recorded for posterity. He had no idea how right he was.

Kendalh
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Post#6 » Mon Apr 07, 2008 11:43 am

Shouldn't you always do rolling lifeblooms? In all healing situations?

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Lealla
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Post#7 » Mon Apr 07, 2008 12:00 pm

Of course he should be rolling Lifeblooms. That's not the issue. The question is whether the extra healing provided by the Idol of the Raven Goddess is superior to the reduced mana cost provided by the Lifebloom idol.

I would say that in a raid healing situation, where the Restoration Druid is in the tank group and will mainly stay in Tree of Life form, the Idol of the Raven Goddess is by far the best one to use. The slight reduction in the Druid's mana efficiency is far outweighed by the overall improvement to raid healing. In 5- or 10-man raids, however, there aren't enough healers for the bonus to matter; whereas the Druid's mana efficiency is far more important. In those cases, the Lifebloom idol is superior.

To reiterate: In 25-man raids, where the Druid is in the MT group and is in Tree of Life form, the Idol of the Raven Goddess is better. In most other situations, the Lifebloom idol is better.
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Stask
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Post#8 » Mon Apr 07, 2008 12:14 pm

Lealla wrote:To reiterate: In 25-man raids, where the Druid is in the MT group and is in Tree of Life form, the Idol of the Raven Goddess is better. In most other situations, the Lifebloom idol is better.


Yeah, that's a very specific situation that calls for the use of the Raven Goddess idol; It's not often that I get put in the MT group during raids. It has happened before, of course, just not very often. I remember it happening on our last SSC raid last week and I only took note of it because it seemed like it hadn't happened in a long while.

But yeah, I equip the Lifebloom idol almost all the time; the only time i don't equip it is when I put on my Starfire idol for soloing. I haven't equipped the Raven Goddess idol in months; it's still sitting in my inventory and hasn't moved from there....

EDIT: This is from the resto druid guide from ElitistJerks: "Idol of the Raven Goddess: I've heard rumors that this idol has strange behavior (sometimes not working), and have not had a chance to test it myself. If it does what it says it does, it is probably the second-best idol to Emerald Queen."
"I am unworthy of any respect. True story." -Brulan



Recorded for posterity. He had no idea how right he was.

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Lealla
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Post#9 » Mon Apr 07, 2008 12:41 pm

The "not working" part was supposedly addressed in 2.4, if you believe the patch notes. However, non-empirical testing is difficult since there is no tooltip or other way to explicitly see how much the Tree of Life aura is benefiting you. You can test it empirically by assuming ToL form and seeing how much your HoTs tick for with and without the idol.
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Post#10 » Thu May 29, 2008 10:52 am

I broke down and got the Idol of the Hidden Moon last night, and spent some time working out a nice macro for it. Note that this macro uses script commands because it's referencing the EquipSet() function of ItemRack. If you have a different gear swapping addon (or no addon), you'll need to adapt the macro to that situation.

Code: Select all

#showtooltip
/use [mod:alt] 14
/use [mod:alt] 13
/cast Starfire
/script if IsShiftKeyDown() then EquipSet("Moonfire Idol") else if GetNumRaidMembers()=0 then EquipSet("Starfire Idol") else EquipSet("Moonkin Idol") end end


What this does is the following:
* If you hold Alt, it pops trinkets (this is part of the original functionality)
* With the Shift key down, it equips the Moonfire idol if not already equipped (ItemRack EquipSet function)
* Without the Shift key down, it equips the Starfire idol when soloing or the Moonkin (Idol of the Raven Goddess) idol when in a raid.

Thus, the possible casting rotations are:

SF x3, Shift-SF x1, MF
SF x2, Shift-SF x1, MF, IS

For Wrath spam, make sure to shift-cast SF then cancel to ensure that the MF idol is equipped.
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Lealla
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Post#11 » Thu Jun 19, 2008 3:15 pm

Looks like 2.4.3 is gonna nuke idol swapping, unless we can rework these macros to avoid spell interruption from equipping gear. The only thing I can think of is only doing equipment swaps after instant cast spells, but that requires much more attention to the casting sequence. Hmm.
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Tachion
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Post#12 » Thu Jun 19, 2008 3:34 pm

yea that shit pissed me off. GG bliz
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Lealla
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Post#13 » Fri Jun 27, 2008 1:56 pm

Hey Tach... you probably have more time during the day to follow the Boomkin theorycrafting than I do, since I can't get to the EJ site from work. Post-idol swapping, has anyone theorycrafted out the relative DPS advantages of keeping the Idol of the Unseen Moon equipped 100% vs. the Ivory Idol of the Moongoddess?

In other words, is the 57 (or whatever) constant bonus damage to Starfire (which isn't increased by talents) more or less beneficial than a 30% chance per Moonfire to get 120 spell damage for 10 seconds on everything (which is increased by talents)?

I tried running my own math on it and, while I'm not sure I'm correct, I came up with some interesting figures. The left side is the rotation, the right side says the net spell damage benefit from each idol:
ISx1 SFx4: MF Idol 0, SF Idol 51
MFx1 SFx4: MF Idol 31, SF Idol 51
MFx1 Wx8: MF Idol 29, SF Idol 0
MFx1 ISx1 SFx3: MF Idol 35, SF Idol 43

So, unless my math is totally screwed up, the Starfire idol will always provide more net benefit than the Moonfire idol in any rotation that includes Starfire to any significant degree. Does this sound right? It boggles my mind.

P.S.: Obviously, the above figures do not include any spell haste. I'm not actually sure how much difference it would make, anyway. It might also be interesting to compare the relative benefits of the Idol of the Raven Goddess at different amounts of spell damage.
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Elvenbane
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Post#14 » Fri Jun 27, 2008 3:00 pm

It's the thought that counts, not how many people die because of it.
Elvenbane#1520

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Elvenbane
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Post#15 » Fri Jun 27, 2008 3:42 pm

Dunno, all the bitching I'm seeing in the Moonkin DPS spreadsheet discussion is to haste or not to haste
It's the thought that counts, not how many people die because of it.
Elvenbane#1520

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