WoTLK and hunters: Updated with new beta build..IT SUCKS

Hunter class discussion.

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Guenever
Demon Hunter
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Post#16 » Fri Sep 26, 2008 9:10 am

That's why you're going to need survival hunters, and why I think MM won't be the highest damage. It's an OOM fest now...

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Drizztdeurde
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Post#17 » Fri Sep 26, 2008 9:22 am

I'll be right there with you, I've always been SV except to pvp with and will continue to find a niche' in SV in the expansion. I will probalby play with MM a little more then I have in the past but once you go SV you never go back :P

even SV though will find itself starving for mana I think. Instant aimed shot will work it'self into our rotationa s well as ES. Both are pretty mana intensive. And if you spec 20 into MM you'll get the aimed shot AP buff which will cost mana, so no matter which route we go we're looking at hurting for mana I think.
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Drizztdeurde
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Post#18 » Fri Sep 26, 2008 9:45 am

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/threa ... 0&pageNo=1

Good read from some beta testers on the different specs
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Ecnailla
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Post#19 » Fri Sep 26, 2008 10:56 am

Can't view from work, but hunter's don't have the mana issues other classes do. We don't need a def pot -so mageblood is available - Viper scales your mana regen with your dmg and with talents you'll get mana back for your crits. Plus we can DW with mana oilx2. A lot of the mana regen spells are now raid wide and are "smart" as in they will pick the 10 that need mana most. As a hunter you can go totally oom and still auto shot- this would keep your mana % low, but keep you in high priority for regen from other classes - using shots as you get the mana for them. - Or just swich to viper, possibly hit rapid fire and fill yourself up to about 25%-50% and swich back to hawk/beast.

I think we will be ok - the main oom concern i have is our healers. No downranking has hurt some of them pretty bad according to feedback from the ptrs and beta.

RIP shaman

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Ecnailla
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Post#20 » Fri Sep 26, 2008 10:57 am

Oh, and fel mana pots are awesome for us...

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Lealla
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Post#21 » Fri Sep 26, 2008 11:03 am

<3 Fel Mana Potions. I make 'em, you know. They work well for Retribution Paladins too, although not so much in 3.0.

Right now, Shamans seem to be the weak links as far as mana is concerned, although I haven't seen the actual theorycrafting on this. Boomkins are down on the list too, though. Restoration Druids should have zero mana problems, since we never downranked to begin with. Priests get some neat mechanics too; it'll be interesting to see where things end up. Holy Paladins have never had serious mana issues, and will have even less with Divine Plea. Retribution and Protection are similarly buffed - you'd have to work very hard to go OOM as a Paladin in 3.0.
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Drizztdeurde
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Post#22 » Fri Sep 26, 2008 11:10 am

I agree with you but I still think we will see us mana starved especially MM. MM would be the highest dps build at the current build stands, except for going OOM to quickly. Your dps will be gimped now tremendously using viper as we do 50% less damage if I read it correctly while getting mana back. Fel mana rocks I agree. Sv is going to be the dps tree I think.
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Lealla
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Post#23 » Fri Sep 26, 2008 11:32 am

I don't know... unless they dramatically changed AotV from the last patch notes I read, it's basically the Hunter equivalent of Divine Plea: "Whoops, I'm OOM - let me just recharge myself to full while still doing some damage." Remember that your threat is not limited in the same manner as other classes (did I mention how much I hate FD?), so as long as your core DPS isn't too bad, you can run yourself up to 129%, then hit AotV and keep your rotation going, and by the time you're at full mana you should be wide open on threat again. If anything, the faster attacks you get with MM will help you recover mana even more quickly.
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Drizztdeurde
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Post#24 » Fri Sep 26, 2008 11:40 am

Just found this too which will help:

Glyph of Aspect of the Viper
Major Glyph
Classes: Hunter
Requires Level 64
Use: Increases the amount of mana gained from attacks while Aspect of the Viper is active by 10%.

I still see MM as having Mana issue's as the build as a whole has always had mana issues. I rarely had problems with threat once the whole salv. thing was settled. even without it as long as I fd'd on time I was good. though SV is going to be interesting as with the current talents and the amount of agility I've seen on items I wouldn't be surprised to see SV hunters at 60% crit if not more, with even more damage then before.
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Guenever
Demon Hunter
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Post#25 » Fri Sep 26, 2008 12:07 pm

As survival (without instant Aimed Shot) I used Major Mageblood, Viper, dual mana oil, and 5 mana pots on the A'lar fight the other night... so...hunters have mana issues. End of story.

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Ecnailla
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Post#26 » Fri Sep 26, 2008 12:28 pm

I'm not saying you won't go oom on long fights - I'm just saying 3.0 seems to be giving hutners more mana than it is taking away. Yes, instant aimed shots and the focus on mana ineff. stings are going to drain more mana than they currently use - but I think the mana gains they will see will be greater. Will you still go oom? I hope so... I think it would be retarded if any class could just go all out pew pew and never go oom on long fights - why even make them use mana at that point? Will you find your post 3.0 mana issues easier than pre3.0? I think so. Not only can you still do dmg when totally oom and pots are on cooldown, but you can swich aspects, keep your dmg going (even if it is lower) and activly regen mana - just ask mages, priests or ele. shaman what their options are once they go oom and pots are on cooldown and how much dmg their wands do on autoshot... (wait... shaman don't get wands... so yea, they just get to look pretty and wait on their mana totem/water sheild to pump a little blue juice their way)

MM will have more mana issues than SV, but I think BM will have worse. With the change to the 1:1 rotation, I think they will have to start working in a full rotation which includes BW ever 1.5 min or so (I for get the new talented cooldown). Their only saving grace will be the pet talent that regens your mana ever few mins.

I guess my point is, yes going oom sucks on any class, but hunters have little room to qq given their options on how to combat oom compaired to mages and such. It's no lifetap, but locks are too OP to be compared to anyone, even hunters....

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Brulan
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Post#27 » Fri Sep 26, 2008 12:44 pm

Hey drizz.. mail agility wont have MP5 it will have int. lrn2read =)

Also, I believe they changed the AoTV to be a base amount of regen like it was, and now its only 30% dmg reduction when in viper.
No.

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Drizztdeurde
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Post#28 » Tue Sep 30, 2008 10:36 pm

Beast Mastery

* Aspect of the Viper reworded - Now: The hunter takes on the aspect of the viper, causing ranged attacks to regenerate mana but reducing your total damage done by 50%. Mana gained is based on the speed of your ranged weapon. Only one Aspect can be active at a time.
* Aspect of the Wild - Rank 4 now increases Nature resistance by 130 (up from 70).
* Kindred Spirits - Description now includes "This does not stack with other movement speed increasing effects."

Marksmanship

* Aimed Shot - Mana cost reduced from 16% to 12% of base mana. Now instant cast. Cooldown increased from 6 seconds to 10 seconds. Ranged damage increase reduced for all ranks.
* Concussive Shot - Now has a 12 sec cooldown.
* Kill Shot - Now deals 200% weapon damage (down from 205%). Base damage reduced by approx 50% on all ranks.
* Multi-Shot - Mana cost increased for 12% to 13% of base mana.
* Focused Aim - No longer effects Aimed Shot. Now also increases your chance to hit by 1/2/3%.
* Marked for Death - Now increases your damage done by your shots and the damage done by your pet's special abilities by 1/2/3/4/5% (down from 2/4/6/8/10%) on marked targets.
* Scatter Shot - Moved from Tier 5 to Tier 3.

Survival

* Freezing Arrow - The trap placed by the arrow now breaks on any damage (instead of having a chance to break).
* Freezing Trap - Trap now breaks on any damage once again, instead of having a chance to break. ("Any damage caused will break the ice.")
* Lock and Load - Now has a 2/4/6% proc chance on periodic damage (down from 5/10/15%).
* Point of No Escape - Changes from 3 to 2 points. Now also effects Freezing Arrow. Critical strike chance increase on affected targets is now 3/6% instead of 2/4/6%.
* Readiness - Moved from Tier 9 to Tier 5.
* Surefooted - Moved from Tier 4 to Tier 2. No longer increases hit chance.
* Trap Mastery - Moved from Tier 3 to Tier 9. Now effects Freezing Trap in the same way as Frost Trap (duration increase, instead of root effect on dispell).

Pet Abilities

* T.N.T. - Moved from Tier 2 to Tier 4
* Avoidance (NEW TALENT) - Reduces the damage your pet takes from area of effect attacks by an additional 25/50%.
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Brulan
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Post#29 » Tue Sep 30, 2008 11:38 pm

The aimed shot change + the new aimed shot glyph = sexy goodness imo.
No.

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Drizztdeurde
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Post#30 » Wed Oct 01, 2008 1:03 am

yeah, that's about the only good thing I saw so far. I was kinda dissapointed in alot of the changes they made. Why take the 3% hit off from surefoot?? It doesn't affect PVP so it in no way makes us OP and it is just a reason to spec into SV, that has always been one of the nice things about SV was not having to be hit capped.

Trap Mastery as a Tier 9 talent is just retarted, almost as bad as forcing us to have 5 points in Master Tactician in order for us to get readiness right now, just a waste of points.

Having Mana gain based on Weapon speed just FURTHER kills MM specs as MM is built on a slow heavy hitting weapon, while BM is going to absolutely pwn as they should be able to quickly regen mana, SV we'll see how some of the other talents work out as far as regen.

I'm playing with specs now as I'm suffering from a severe case of insomnia and having a hard time specing, nothing mesh's well at the moment.... more to follow.

My current SV build:
http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=cZ0xVc ... o0IhxhA0ct

My MM build:
under contruction, probably would be a very deep MM build though, something like 5/58/8 as I think that IAoTH might help with AP speed a little and the lower tier SV talents might be nice, again work in progress. I think SV is definetly the PVP tree now though.
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