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WotLK Paladin Talents and Abilities Review - Clan YaWA - You and Whose Army

WotLK Paladin Talents and Abilities Review

Paladin class discussion.

Moderator: Demon Hunters

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Lealla
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WotLK Paladin Talents and Abilities Review

Post#1 » Fri Jul 18, 2008 6:44 pm

The new Paladin talents are Awesome with a capital Awesome.



I'll leave the analysis of the Holy tree to the experts, but the new stuff going into the Protection and Retribution trees leaves me drooling. Some off-the-cuff analysis based on major talent changes follows.

Protection
* Divine Strength is 50% stronger and is in the Protection tree. It makes no more sense here than in Holy, but I guess the Retribution tree was bloated enough. Anticipation is where my first 5 points are going.
* Divine Guardian - When you pop Divine Shield, all party/raid members in 30 yards take 30% less damage. This could be a PvP talent... it could also find some very interesting uses in PvE, as long as the Paladin using isn't the main tank.
* Touched by the Light - You get spellpower equal to 30% of your Stamina. Byebye specialized Paladin tanking gear. This will let you use Warrior gear and still be able to generate threat. The healing bonus is interesting for an offheal role.
* Hammer of the Righteous (51 point talent) - Cleave-type ability (hits 3 targets) for 100% of weapon damage as Holy damage, high threat, 6 sec CD. Not like we needed a new AoE threat tool, but here it is. It looks like it'll be nice to use inbetween other cooldowns.

Generally, the Protection tree seems pretty straightforward; there are no serious mechanical changes and only one new active ability.

Unfortunately, there are not enough points to get all desirable tanking talents plus the good tanking abilities from the Retribution tree.

that uses all the good Protection talents, with 4 points left over.


Retribution
* Heart of the Crusader - as discussed in the patch notes, this replaces Imp JotC and gives all debuffing Judgements the 3% crit bonus it previously gave only to JotC.
* Conviction - applies to spells now. Nice.
* Sanctified Retribution - Retribution Aura increases damage by 2% (replaces Sanctity Aura).
* Sheath of Light - 30% of attack power becomes spellpower (finally!), plus crit heals leave a HoT for 60% of their effect, making Retribution heals less of a joke.
* Judgements of the Wise - Judgements restore 60% of damage caused as mana to up to 3 party members. This is a massive improvement from the original Sanctified Judgements.
* Repentance - Duration increased to 1 minute, affects more types of creatures. Finally a respectable CC.
* Sanctified Wrath - Massively buffs Hammer of Wrath and Avenging Wrath. Massively.
* Swift Retribution - Retribution Aura gives 3% haste.
* The Art of War - Crusader Strike has a 15% chance to make your next Judgement do double damage. Kind of odd, but I can see this being useful.
* Righteous Vengeance - 15% critical strike damage bonus. Wow.
* Divine Storm - Instant attack that damages up to 4 nearby enemies and heals up to 3 party or raid members for 20% of the damage caused. 10 sec cooldown.

It's obvious that Retribution Aura is the intended aura of the Retribution tree. This is a welcome change from when it was totally worthless other than for tanks. Between the AP->Spellpower conversion that we get at long last, and the mana/healing we provide to raid/party members, the group utility of the Retribution Paladin is significantly buffed.

I could come up with on short notice. An argument could be made for dropping Improved Blessing of Might and going for Blessing of Kings instead.

On a mechanical note, the reduction in the number of Auras and Blessings, plus the raidwide applicability of Auras, means that there's no longer a practical advantage to having more than 3 Paladins in a raid. This seems consistent with the Shaman changes, too.

I'm very, very pleased by the new talents and will be interested to see how they play out with the other classes.


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Virek
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Post#2 » Sun Jul 20, 2008 12:26 am

dont forget this little thing i found on wowhead

Shield of Righteousness
6% of base mana 5 yd range
Instant cast 6 sec cooldown

Requires Shields
Slam the target with your shield, causing Holy damage equal to 200% of your block value. This spell causes a high amount of threat.


uh huh, thats right, pally version of shield slam. the mechanics of this are crazy. your looking at 2000 holy damage off of this non crit. multiplied by righteous fury is going to be nice threat gen. also add in the fact that it notes a high amount of threat, not sure if they mean seperate from righteous fury or not, if so, that would be insane.

with shield of the righteous and hammer of the righeous, im seeing judgment based threat gen. going the way of the salv bomb. if any of you were tanking pre bc it was our ghetto taunt. basicly, spell rotation will consist of Shield of righteousness, hammer of righteousness, judgement of righteousness, consecration and holy shield. looking to be insane threat. proby leaving judgement on its 10 second gcd instead of improving it, since there will be 3 other talents on a 6 second gcd now. Also, starting off the mix with tossing your shield.... your looking at 8-9k threat opening on a target since the mechanics of shield of righteousness alone are above 3-4k threat.

this makes one think. shield slam, hammer of righteousness, which is based off of weapon damage, judgements reducing melee attack speed of the target by 20%, paladins are going to be nearly identical to a warrior for a MT slot. granted, paladins still have less 'o shit' buttons, i.e. shield wall, last stand and what not. but lay on hands is awsome, and nightmare seeds do work for a ghetto last stand. so this leaves us with the only difference between a paladin and a warrior will be shield wall and demo shout. move over warriors, the time of the paladin mt is comming = )

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Post#3 » Sun Jul 20, 2008 10:14 am

Okay, that's sick. I'll have to think about the ideal tanking rotation, but it looks like every GCD is going to be used for something, mana permitting. After conversation with Holydude yesterday, I've decided that the maximal raid tanking build will be something like . If we assume that crushing blow mechanics are being removed, then not having maxed Parry will no longer be a serious problem.

Still, let's examine cooldowns.

Judgement - 10 sec
Shield of Righteousness - 6 sec
Hammer of Righteousness - 6 sec
Holy Shield - 8 sec
Consecration - 8 sec
Exorcism (undead only) - 15 sec
Holy Wrath (undead only) - 30 sec

I'll have to do the math later, but it looks like it'll be impossible to use every ability on its minimum cooldown.

----

Oh, and for the Holy Paladins, here's the new reactive ability you get:

Sacred Shield - Rank 1 - Level 80
Each time the target takes damage they gain a Sacred Shield, absorbing 500 damage. They cannot gain this effect more than once every 6 seconds.
Instant cast, 35 Mana, 40 yd range



holydudez

Post#4 » Sun Jul 20, 2008 1:22 pm

Interesting, here is my tanking build. I still wanted that parry however so i dropped One handed spec and Reckoning. Pretty solid I think.

http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=smZV0tIgcdMMqeRGoV0x

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Obanswrath
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Post#5 » Sun Jul 20, 2008 1:36 pm

http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=sZE0tIx0zMgqeRGoVbL

http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=sZE0tIx0zMgqeoGoVbx0o

so many options.... and that was just like 2 min, so i am sure there is better, and no i prob will not pick up reckoning



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Virek
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Post#6 » Sun Jul 20, 2008 7:02 pm

yea, im looking at for my build. i didnt put anything in holy becuase your main threat doesnt seem like seals and judgments anymore. and i kept as much of one hand specialization as i could because it is all damage done while a one hand weapon is equiped which includes the 2 new talents. i feel its the best i can muster at this point without being able to try it first hand.

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Post#7 » Wed Jul 30, 2008 11:03 pm




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Obanswrath
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Post#8 » Thu Jul 31, 2008 10:26 am

looking at everything I think this looks like the best all round build for tanking

http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=sV0bZEbtIx0zMgoeRGoVb

you get the threat, the resist to stun/fear/disorient the only thing you lose is the parry (which is kinda crap) and the ardent defender stuff, which AD is nice and all but I do not think it outweighs all the other stuff, opinions?

though still pissed i could not pick up PoJ, Reck, or the damn imp ret aura

BTW with the new dmg and SB (especially with shield of righteousness) stuff i think it is very important to pick up the extra str and 1h weapon specialization, also the points in imp SOV/SOR etc... is very nice from holy





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Virek
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Post#9 » Thu Jul 31, 2008 6:09 pm

meh, i gotta disagree with you on that buddha. your missing 3 very strong mitigation talents. spell warding, deflection and ardent defender. granted ardent defender has the chance of being jumped if a boss somehow lands a crush. However you might say that since they are doing away with crushing mechanics in the xpac that it doesnt matter. well, then you survive longer anyway because theres no way that it can be jumped. but that brings us back to the more important first two. deflection and spell warding are needed talents to be a viable tank.... just my 2 cents of course. And did you see the new imp devotion aura? who cares about ret aura..... i mean really, tons of armor and a 3% healing recieved? awsome talent. Also, judgement threat is being sidelined so it seams. hamer of the righteous and shield of the righteous are going to be the way to go, judgement will just be the icing to the cake, so keeping that on the 10 second cd and not improving it to get mitigation talents are really whats worth looking into. no one likes a squishy tank

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Post#10 » Thu Jul 31, 2008 6:22 pm

I'd only go for Unyielding Faith and Stoicism in a PvP build. Parry is great for avoidance but is it really worth missing out on threat generation talents like Reckoning? Similarly, Divine Strength will boost Shield Block (esp. with the new conversion ratio) and Hammer of the Righteous, so it's more of a threat gen talent than a defensive one.

I've been thinking a bit more about Spell Warding, and I can see how it might be left out of a straight PvE tanking build, simply because of the overwhelming preponderance of physical damage in most fights. I don't like dropping Reckoning, but you could argue the case for maximum mitigation, in which case would be one possible build. I could even see separate builds for AoE tanking, magic damage tanking, physical damage tanking, and threat generation, by shifting around 10 or so points.



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Obanswrath
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Post#11 » Fri Aug 01, 2008 10:03 am






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Virek
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Post#12 » Fri Aug 01, 2008 2:12 pm

divine guardian is going to come into play in 10-25 man content. And, when the paladin is not the main tank. your telling me that if a boss is at 3% and we hit his enrage that that will not negate it and let us kill him? cmon. how many times have we wiped at the feet of a boss at 1% because of an enrage. 30% less damage is a ton. let it stack on you, hit loh, a pot, and look, we win.

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Post#13 » Fri Aug 01, 2008 2:26 pm

I still don't buy the theory that Divine Guardian will damage you through Divine Shield unless reports from the beta say otherwise. I'll do some research tonight, but does anyone have any clear proof one way or the other?

Taking 30% of raid damage with no mitigation will splatter any Paladin; I don't care how much healing they get. In fact, I would be afraid to bubble with this talent for fear of dying horribly. There is no way that Blizzard will release something that has such insane potential for accidental suicide.

Take Naj'entus for example: 8500 damage * 25 members = 212,500 damage * 30% = 63,750. That's in one hit. The only way this is practical is if Divine Shield eats all of the redirected damage.

Now, using Divine Protection, you will take 30% of raid damage and have 50% mitigation - still a lot but at least theoretically survivable (except in the aforementioned Naj'entus scenario, of course). But there's no way that DS should make you die faster with this talent than DP.

If you're right, however, and Divine Guardian bypasses bubble immunity, then it becomes strictly a PvP talent, because no sane Paladin would take it in a raid spec.



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Virek
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Post#14 » Fri Aug 01, 2008 2:33 pm

im just assuming that it bypasses bubble for now, in theory it wont. but we all know how blizzard and theory works. And, this is only beta, things will change drasticly come launch. but you have to find the healthy balance of mitigation and threat gen. thats what makes a good tank.

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Obanswrath
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Post#15 » Fri Aug 01, 2008 3:55 pm

I am going to have to side with lealla on this one, and also change a little of my view on putting points in fear and stun resist... thanks lealla for making em have to think and weigh stuff out, I still think that DG is for pvp or is crap one of the two, but I still stick to my guns on avoiding reckoning, so far it is
http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=sVZE0tIxczMgseRGoV
that is the best all around, but i still think the Core build i posted above that is the lvl 74 build, is the core of what a good pally tank will need, I will be back soon to dust off my armor, I might just remember how the whole tanking thing works,





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