"Wake me up, when Election ends....."

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Palehorse
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"Wake me up, when Election ends....."

Post by Palehorse » Sat Nov 01, 2008 10:48 pm

Anyone else in the US waiting to cast their vote on Election Day?

And as an aside, I found out that David Baldacci came out with a new book on the Camel Club called Divine Justice. Went to Barnes 'n Noble and found out it won't be out until Tues >_<

Ecnailla
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Post by Ecnailla » Sat Nov 01, 2008 11:53 pm

not voting. waste of time.

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Arlan
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Post by Arlan » Sun Nov 02, 2008 12:08 am

Living in Arizona, I feel like my vote doesn't count for much. Arizona historically votes ~70% republican, but I have heard it might be much closer this election.

Stask
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Post by Stask » Sun Nov 02, 2008 4:41 am

Arlan, I've been studying the polls and while AZ is still slightly leaning Republican, it's alot closer than anyone expected it to be.

Let me put it this way: I heard that McCain is having robo-phonecalls being made to ask people to vote McCain on Election day. Yes, you read that right: McCain is spending resources to shore up the vote in his own home state. That alone should tell you how much trouble McCain is in, even in Arizona.

Arlan, go vote. It just might matter this year.
Last edited by Stask on Sun Nov 02, 2008 1:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"I am unworthy of any respect. True story." -Brulan

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Ecnailla
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Post by Ecnailla » Sun Nov 02, 2008 9:54 am

Texas

Voting is still a waste of time in TX.

Really for two reasons, McCain is going to win Texas and is going to lose overall. I'm not going to waste my time voting when it will have zero effect on either thing.

Stask
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Post by Stask » Sun Nov 02, 2008 12:44 pm

Ecnailla wrote:Texas

Voting is still a waste of time in TX.

Really for two reasons, McCain is going to win Texas and is going to lose overall. I'm not going to waste my time voting when it will have zero effect on either thing.
Yeah, Ec, I can understand why you wouldn't want to vote in those circumstances. It's the same thing in Maryland here where I am. Maryland is gonna go to Obama in a walk, so it would make sense for me to stay home too. But since I'm a naturalized citizen, I still feel compelled to go and vote and do my civic duty, even though it won't make any practical difference in the overall election. Alot of my life was spent without my being able to vote, so I guess I feel that now that I can vote, I feel it's a duty for me to exercise it whenever i can. Not everyone feels as compelled as I do and that's fine: voting is a right that you can choose to exercise or not exercise as you see fit.

Voting to me feels like necessary maintenance that just needs to be done to maintain our democracy. You know how you shower and shave and brush your teeth to maintain your daily hygiene? That's how I view voting, as regular hygiene for democracy. Yeah, there are times when it doesn't seem necessary but it's still a good idea to practice it anyway. But sometimes, there's nothing wrong with letting yourself go every once in a while, I guess.

Arlan's circumstances are different, however. Granted, Arizona recently looked to be a lock for McCain, so Arlan's circumstances looked to be the same as mine or Ec's, but as I noted above, things in AZ have changed. I'd rather see Arlan go vote (even if it's for the guy I'm not voting for) rather than just stay home since his vote in what is now a swing state could make a difference.
"I am unworthy of any respect. True story." -Brulan

Recorded for posterity. He had no idea how right he was.

Ecnailla
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Post by Ecnailla » Sun Nov 02, 2008 3:45 pm

I feel voting for the president in such a manner is misguided if you don't vote fore your city council, mayor, senators, and things like that. That is the routine maintenance IMO.

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Lealla
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Post by Lealla » Sun Nov 02, 2008 4:57 pm

Pennsylvania is a major battleground state, so I'm making absolutely sure that I get my vote in. But the "my vote doesn't matter" apathy, carried far enough, may have a crippling effect on the election system. How much of the severe Red/Blue swing in many states is due to the other side giving up and staying home?
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Palehorse
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Post by Palehorse » Sun Nov 02, 2008 6:42 pm

people vote (or conversely don't vote) for a number of reasons. for me personally, while I understand that a single vote may not make a difference in a single election (although there was a case of a wife's failure to vote supposedly costing her husband's electoral loss due to a *single* vote), as lealla points out, the apathy mentality if carried far enough, can swing potentially close elections. recall that Florida was disputed in 2000 with a difference of only 500+ votes for Bush.

I also take the view that voting is also participating in democracy. It seems rather churlish, to say the least, to complain loudly about any perceived or real shortfalls while not participating in politics or community life (assuming you're eligible to vote).

Stask
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Post by Stask » Sun Nov 02, 2008 6:44 pm

I've been looking at the numbers and I wouldn't call Pennsylvania a "major battleground state." A battleground/swing state is technically defined as a state where the two candidates are with 5 points of each other. The Pennsylvania polls today show Obama ahead by 6 points.

(This was an average I took of seven polls here. [I'm not sure yet how reliable an election blog RealClearPolitics is, I heard it leans Republican and it's linked to alot of Republican blogs, some of which seem less than even-handed. :-P] The spread was pretty wide with one poll in that average showing Obama ahead by only four points and another poll showing him ahead in PA by fourteen points. The +14 point lead poll might be an outlier, but then again might not. In any case, McCain has his work cut out for him.)

This 6 point lead would technically make PA leaning Dem rather than a swing state. But for damned sure, neither candidate is resting on his laurels here. McCain is desperate to flip PA (it hasnt gone Republican since 1988) and he might be able to pull it off, but there's no question he's got his work cut out for him in this state.

Just saying.
"I am unworthy of any respect. True story." -Brulan

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Gnomerman
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Post by Gnomerman » Sun Nov 02, 2008 7:13 pm

i hope you guys realize that polls are mostly garbage, because such small groups are polled, and you can poll a group in a state to say what you want. its just like the majority of statistics, the results come out how whoever is funding them wants them to.
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Palehorse
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Post by Palehorse » Sun Nov 02, 2008 8:53 pm

eh it depends gnomer. the sample size *can* matter to a certain extent because obviously assuming you have a representative sample, 500 responses > 50 responses. wording of a question as well as the timing can also affect poll results (ie. people respond differently to characterizing the estate tax as a "death tax", as are asking someone before/after a major crisis or headline which can skew perceptions).

that said, interest groups and politicians use polls, and while the results may be unpleasant, they have to be at least somewhat useful for people to make use of them. And polls have come a long way since the famous Literary Digest poll that predicted a Dewey landslide, when the actual result was a Truman victory.

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