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QQ :( - Clan YaWA - You and Whose Army

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Rogue class discussion.

Moderator: Demon Hunters

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zephar
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QQ :(

Post#1 » Wed Jun 20, 2007 3:36 pm

This post is an attempt by a long time rogue (2+ years of play, 3 different rogues to end game) to consolidate for the Devs some of the scattered information from the PvP community about the state of Rogue PvP.

I suspect that the Devs have access to much of this, especially the game data in relation to how many Rogues are on competitive arena teams, etc etc... but some of this info comes straight from non-blizzard community sites and unless a Dev was actively seeking it out, they may not be aware of it.

EDIT: This was also posted in the general forums in the hopes that it gets a broader, game-wide, audience/discussion: http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/threa ... 17&sid=1#0





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Rogue Stats in Top 20 Arena
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http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/threa ... 2673&sid=1

5v5: Eighth most played class. In the most desirable bracket, the one that gives the most points, only Druid is played less.

3v3: Sixth most played class. Just less than middle of the pack.

2v2: Fifth most played class. The least desirable bracket, with the least reward for success, is the rogues best. They are exactly middle of the pack.

~ Something to consider. Adjust these numbers for class population and the outlook would be worse.

~ Something to consider. The incoming trinket change should alter some of these Rogue numbers downward over season 2.





*******************************
Rogues in Tournament Play
*******************************

WSVG 3v3 Tournament in China

In the most recent WSVG (World Series of Video Games) 3v3 Arena Tournament held in China there were no rogues found on competitive teams. Tournament winner Power Trip was asked why their long time teammate, and Rogue, Nitrana did not make the trip and here is what they had to say:

"we came to win the prize money, we want to play the most effective matrix, and rogue in 3v3 is not much better than rogue in 5v5"


Blizzard's 5v5 Tournament, 2nd Round

http://armory.worldofwarcraft.com/arena ... ackets.xml

As best as I can tell, there were only 2 Rogues on Starting Rosters in the North American tournament. 1 of those teams was eliminated in the first match and then again in the first match of the losers bracket. The other was eliminated in their 2nd match and then the 3rd match of the losers bracket.

3 Teams advanced, none have Rogues on their starting roster pre-DQs

In the European tournament, the Armory is buggy, but I think I see 2 Rogues on starting lineups.





*********************************
Rogues in High Level 1v1 Play
*********************************
On the last PTR (not this current one) 2100+ rated Rogues were invited to duel similarly rated players from other classes in a best of 7 series. They were filmed. The results can be found here:

http://www.warcraftmovies.com/movieview.php?id=39603

Summary: At high levels of gear/skill rogues were beating 2 classes in best of 7 match ups, both of whom were typically geared/specced for healing support.

On this current PTR, with the trinket change, Rogue performance in these matches has dropped substantially. There are no videos to speak of, but information from top duelers on test is suggesting that Rogues are now low man on the food chain in 1v1 pvp.





*************
Talent Drain
*************

Top Tier rogues are either fleeing the class completely, cutting down their play time, or being relegated to bench work. Here is an incomplete list - feel free to correct me or add to it:

Corrupt (re-roll)

Nitrana (re-roll)

Inactive (re-roll)

Revak (re-roll)

Tosan (on his way out?)

Zechs (focusing on pve now?)

Dahis (though technically not a re-roll at the time, it is hard to imagine he wouldn't re-roll given the current state of affairs and some of his sympathetic and helpful blogs on the subject)

Happyminti (will be coming off the bench on his new arena team)





***********************************************
Team Pandemic Blogs on Rogues in Arena
***********************************************
Team Pandemic is a professional gaming team and Power Trip is their sponsored Warcraft team. Power Trip won the WSVG 3v3 Tournament in China and have advanced to Blizzcon in the 5v5 Tournament.

http://www.teampandemic.net/features/33

"I want to talk about class compositions and how much it really bugs me that rogues just don’t fit into groups as well as a lot of other classes. I’m going to use our roster’s rogue as an example. . . Nitrana has played a rogue since he started WoW, always learning everything he can about the class, doing whatever it takes to win in PvP, using any cooldown, item, skill or anything that will give him an edge. The guy is amazing and I’m glad he is a part of our roster, however this is WoW’s major flaw: versus a lot of higher tier groups he simply isn’t worth running just because of his class."

http://www.teampandemic.net/features/36

"Every week is the same situation for me. I'm forced to ride the bench for the most part until an opportunity arises where the Rogue class (which I am) can swap out with the Hunter class (Reznap) to defeat the current group(s) queuing. I understand why we do it, and, to be honest, I'm in favor for it. Rogues just aren't meant to be played competitively in the arena 5v5 level. If I were to describe the 5v5 arena class roles to someone who has never played the game, I can guarantee that person would never consider playing a rogue... EVER. Why is that, you ask? Because rogues have no almost no definitive 5v5 role. They offer no group buffs and very few group de-buffs. With subpar burst damage compared to a mage, and subpar sustained damage compared to a warrior, there's really nothing else they bring to the table that would be more useful than that of another class."





*****************************************************
Shadow-Gaming Blogs on Balancing Rogue PvP
*****************************************************

Shadow Gaming is a website set up by Happyminti and Dahis (famous rogue... or ex rogue in the case of Dahis... movie makers) and members of their team.

http://www.shadow-gaming.com/?p=104

"While I’ve moved from a 94 DPS Crow Wing Reaper to a 118 DPS Mooncleaver since hitting level 70, Happyminti’s PvP gear actually puts him at significantly less attack power than he had in level 70 quest blues. While my Mortal Strike crits for 1.5k more than it did a couple months ago, Minti’s Eviscerate and Rupture hit for less than they did when he was farming mobs in Netherstorm."

"Conversely, a Warrior with Intercept (and any ranged DPS class) can throw damage all over the map, instantly getting on any target in line of sight. The inability to converge on a new target is something entirely unique to the Rogue, as the only other melee class (Warrior) has a powerful ability that completely ignores this potential weakness."
I crit perception so hard that I could see why people love Cinnamon Toast Crunch.

" I saw a baby [ panda ] sneeze in a video and it telepathicly gave me a bonar. Cosmic Powers "

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zephar
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Post#2 » Wed Jun 20, 2007 3:57 pm

A lot of my friends that play Rogues, Most of them RL people I know, Have pretty much quit playing or have rerolled another class. These friends of mine, purely pvp people, have just found rogues useless in Arena's and in PvP in general. I for one also feel like We are a broken class. I'm still going to be playing my Rogue, but everyday my little priest looks better and better.
I crit perception so hard that I could see why people love Cinnamon Toast Crunch.



" I saw a baby [ panda ] sneeze in a video and it telepathicly gave me a bonar. Cosmic Powers "

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Animist
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Post#3 » Wed Jun 20, 2007 5:07 pm

So the short answer is what, "lern2warlock"?

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zephar
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Post#4 » Thu Jun 21, 2007 11:51 am

I crit perception so hard that I could see why people love Cinnamon Toast Crunch.



" I saw a baby [ panda ] sneeze in a video and it telepathicly gave me a bonar. Cosmic Powers "

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Tanara
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Post#5 » Sat Jun 23, 2007 6:01 pm

I'd say the same thing for shaman because I really dont see them being successful as compared to other classes. A few useful totems are the only thing they can contribute to a group, other than that their dps isnt lacking but they have no aggro reduction abilities, little armor to mention (especially if theyre in melee, they dont have many ways of escaping a stun or slow, if any). I've tried speccing resto and I cant solo, and I've tried speccing enhance but I find that my survivability is horrible. Only one left is elemental, and that tree just got nerfed. I havent touched my 70 tauren shaman in probably a month since I just cant do anything with him.
70 tauren shaman
66 troll mage
70 nightelf warrior

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Animist
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Post#6 » Mon Jun 25, 2007 2:27 pm


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Tanara
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Post#7 » Tue Jun 26, 2007 3:04 pm

70 tauren shaman

66 troll mage

70 nightelf warrior

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Animist
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Post#8 » Tue Jun 26, 2007 4:20 pm


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Context
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Post#9 » Wed Jun 27, 2007 9:13 am



...have trigger, will travel...

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