My Dagger Spec

Rogue class discussion.

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Posts: 25

My Dagger Spec

Post#1 » Fri Aug 03, 2007 12:13 am

Basically you can change around points in imp gouge, nerves of steel, endurance, or lightning reflexes you want, but keep everything else.

Those 11 Points are basically throw ins, but keep them in the combat tree for CP/SA

The two points in Ruthlessness can be replaced into Murder, but I personally like the extra combo point for keeping up S&D/building Rupture.

Msg me in game if you need any clarification

Posts: 97

Post#2 » Fri Aug 03, 2007 2:00 am

Whats hit rating do?

Posts: 1804

Post#3 » Fri Aug 03, 2007 12:52 pm

Here's what I came up with:

Murder was nice, but I think if I have to choose between Murder and Ruthlessness, Ruth is prolly better for raiding. I don't usually have a problem keeping SnD up, but those combo point procs could still be useful.

I wanted to get Lethality up to 5/5 but i needed that 5th point in Ruthlessness in order to access the 3rd tier of Assassination. Ditto with a few other things.

I'm not a fan of Imp Gouge, or even regular Gouge, so those 3 points went into 3/3 Lightning Reflexes to access the 2nd tier of Combat.

Blade Twisting never really seemed to help me out much when it procced, so that went bye-bye and those points went into Agression instead.

Nerves of Steel was nice but doesnt need to be maxed when that 1 point could be better spent max'ing out CP. SA was kept maxed. Opportunity (as I should have done long ago but have now corrected) is 5/5. Most everything else has stayed the same.

Now if Malchazeen will just drop, I'll be alright...
"I am unworthy of any respect. True story." -Brulan

Recorded for posterity. He had no idea how right he was.

Posts: 48

Post#4 » Fri Aug 03, 2007 1:34 pm

Maxing out Ruthlessness is worth sacrificing another point in Lethality.

You've got both Imp SS and Aggression, do you use SS much? If you want them for farming, that's understandable, but as a dagger Rogue you shouldn't be using SS in a raid environment except potentially on Aran during Flame Wreath. Admittedly the Evis bonus from Aggression is decent for Kara because almost everything is bleed immune.

You say you don't have a problem keeping SnD up, but are you using other finishers? A typical Combat Daggers cycle without 2-piece Tier 4 is 3s/5s/5r, which means you do a 3-pt SnD, then a 5-pt SnD and then a 5-pt Rupture and repeat. If you can't use Rupture, then 3s/5s/5e is typically used instead. The "e" is Evis, of course, Envenom is not worth using in a raid environment unless it is pretty much the last thing you do to the target.

Posts: 1804

Post#5 » Fri Aug 03, 2007 10:37 pm

I actually use SS all the time, which begs the question: how else do I generate combo points besides Backstab and Sinister Strike?

Yeah, I think I need to start experimenting with using cycles, pretty much what I've been doing until now is using SS and Backstab to generate combo points, then popping SnD, then SS and BS to get more combo points again and using them on Evis. I'll try using Rupture instead of Evis and see how that works out. I haven't used a set cycle at all, which explains why I hear complaints from other rogues that they get bored pressing only three buttons and getting bored with rogue combat.

Anyway, additional advice would be appreciated. :-)
"I am unworthy of any respect. True story." -Brulan

Recorded for posterity. He had no idea how right he was.

Posts: 48

Post#6 » Fri Aug 03, 2007 11:49 pm

You don't generate points other than those abilities (or perhaps Shiv, but I don't even have that on my bars anywhere). SS sucks with daggers, though. You should always use BS when it's possible, which is basically always except for parts of Aran and solo farming.

Keep in mind that Energy is our limitation, not cooldowns for a number of other classes. Backstab essentially has a 6 second cooldown like Mortal Strike because that's how long it takes to get the energy (not counting Combat Potency or Tea and such). The difference, and one of the beauties of the energy system, is that because energy is our cooldown we have much more freedom to not use abilities immediately upon being cooled down.

So if you've got 60 energy but you're not behind the target, you can wait all the way up until you would lose energy due to a regen tick at 100 and not affect your DPS over a fight that lasts long enough for you to do so. In contrast, a Warrior can only use Mortal Strike 6 seconds after the previous MS, so if he does it at 7 seconds, he's just lost that 1 second as far as MS damage is concerned.

It's one of the fun things about a Muti build is dynamically deciding when to use your finishers to maximize the number of abilities you can use while Find Weakness is up from the previous finisher. If you just do it when you've got the combo points and energy, you'll only get 1 Mutilate off (assuming no Ruthlessness energy) because the second one would take 12 seconds to get to and FW lasts 10. If, however, you wait until nearly full energy, you can get 2 Mutis and another finisher off under the FW. If it's SnD, however, you have to decide if you want to let SnD drop for slightly more regen time or refresh it as it wears off, potentially sacrificing FW benefits on another ability a bit later. Sadly, Muti lags far behind Combat builds in sustained DPS output capability and is not really viable for raids beyond Kara.

I've gotten quite a bit off track here, but the point is that you should almost never use SS as a dagger Rogue in a raiding environment. BS is a far better use of your energy with that kind of a build.

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