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Specing Pho - Clan YaWA - You and Whose Army

Specing Pho

Rogue class discussion.

Moderator: Demon Hunters

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Elvenbane
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Specing Pho

Post#1 » Tue Nov 20, 2007 1:25 pm

Alright, Pho's 70 now and it's time for a respec.

His current spec is and leaves much to be desired in the ways of dps.

Due to pho's mobility I'm thinking a sword spec might be best, however he does current have 2 Ced's Carvers and no decent swords.

Gimme some builds and yes I'm aware of Combat Daggers
It's the thought that counts, not how many people die because of it.
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Stask
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Post#2 » Tue Nov 20, 2007 1:36 pm

Hmm, with having 2 Ced's Carvers, Combat Daggers would be his ideal build so far. As for Sword Spec, that outside of my area of expertise (such as it is).

However, I am willing to give Pho some gameplay tips on how to play daggers in the meatime until we can get him some decent swords. As for what alternative specs there are, I don't know. I tend to say that if the Combat Daggers spec isn't broke, then don't fix it. :-)
"I am unworthy of any respect. True story." -Brulan

Recorded for posterity. He had no idea how right he was.

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Merawynn
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Post#3 » Tue Nov 20, 2007 2:01 pm



This is a common sword rogue raid build. Hemo is another option, but know very little about it.

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Post#4 » Tue Nov 20, 2007 3:28 pm

Confused about the imp gouge and imp sprint in the build you listed mera, they don't seem very... raidy to me
It's the thought that counts, not how many people die because of it.
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Shadeaux
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Post#5 » Tue Nov 20, 2007 3:36 pm

Well, keeping in mind I've never really spec'd SOLELY for raiding before.. but I would think this would be the best of the raiding dps talents.

http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/cla ... 0000000000


You guys let me know if that is kind of what your looking for.



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Merawynn
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Post#6 » Tue Nov 20, 2007 4:25 pm

Look at my spec..I do have imp sprint :D and imp kick. Sprint is more for pvp, but I had to use the points to get lower in the tree.

And I stole that spec off another raiding rogue on the server, so mine does differ a bit.

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Post#7 » Tue Nov 20, 2007 5:39 pm


Stask
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Post#8 » Tue Nov 20, 2007 6:24 pm

"I am unworthy of any respect. True story." -Brulan



Recorded for posterity. He had no idea how right he was.

Nagisa
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Post#9 » Sun Jan 06, 2008 5:12 pm

Thieves! Quit stealing my secretz! (Just kidding!)

Just parusing the forums and I'd figure I'd drop my $0.02.

- A sword combat rogue is the highest damage rogue atm. Followed by combat daggers, tri-spec (11/27/23) Hemo, and then Muti/combat

- Hemo will be nerfed in the next patch so it's not "as" raid viable anymore, but play style is basically 2/5 and does decent damage.

- I've posted a dagger build before, but my sword build currently is "ideal" for raiding. Imp Gouge is a pvp talent if you don't want the 3% dodge, imp kick is mostly pvp (can't silence mobs), imp sprint is great for some fights where you will be slow/snared, and combat potency is the highly regarded as one of the easiest ways to up your dps by 50-100.

- EB, with two 1.8 daggers, Muti Combat is a decent spec. However, when you run it, make sure you use dual DP or at least DP/IP and your rotations are 2S&D/4rupture/4Evis. Flizibibi has a good mutilate spec if you want to look at it.

- Combat swords isn't more reliant on combo points, but it will allow you to maintain a solid rotation (less energy dependant --> more CP --> easier control of rotations) faster and easier. I can pull of 1/5 while combat daggers ideally need 3/5/5 rotations, which take more time to set up and there are very few bosses where you can execute that type of rotation consistently without getting interrupted. (e.g. Gruul/HKM)

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Gig
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Post#10 » Thu Jan 17, 2008 2:48 pm


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Lealla
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Post#11 » Thu Jan 17, 2008 3:24 pm



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Gig
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Post#12 » Fri Jan 25, 2008 8:41 pm


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Lealla
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Post#13 » Fri Jan 25, 2008 9:31 pm

Umm, Gigaflo? Check the numbers. Being dodged is as bad as missing; it reduces your DPS by exactly the same amount. Reducing your chance to be dodged by 1% is identical in effect to increasing your chance to hit by 1%. I know this is tough, but stay with me. Here are some formulas:

Expertise Rating conversion at lv70: 3.94:1
1 point of Expertise = 0.25% reduced parry/dodge
Expertise Raiting for 1% parry/dodge reduction: 15.77 (source: http://www.wowwiki.com/Formulas:Expertise)

Hit rating for 1% improved hit chance: 15.77 (source: http://www.wowwiki.com/Hit)

As you can see, the comparative values are identical. Now, your effective hit bonus required for specials is capped at 8.6% (3.6% with Precision), while your dual wield hit bonus is capped at 27.6% (22.6% with Precision). Therefore, any hit rating you gain above the amount needed to cap your specials is beneficial exactly in proportion to your ratio of white to yellow damage.

Critical hit rating also increases your DPS. How much? 23.6% gives you 1% increased chance to deal a critical strike. Without talents, this gives a flat 1% increase in your DPS (except for bleeds). Now, Rogues have several talents that improve the benefit of critical hits, such as Lethality (improved damage multiplier) and Seal Fate (extra combo points on critical hits). It's difficult to absolutely quantify these effects, but let's just say 1% crit = 1% DPS.

Let's assume a typical combat build, with 60% of your DPS coming from white damage and 40% from specials. Let's assume you have 5/5 Precision and are always attacking from behind (a decent assumption in raids). Now, by simple math, the following calculations apply:

* Hit Rating, up to Special Cap: (64 rating)
1% rating = 1% DPS increase; 15.77 rating/1% DPS

* Hit Rating, up to Melee Cap: (65 to 363 rating)
1% rating = 0.6% DPS increase; 26.28 rating/1% DPS

* Expertise Rating, up to Cap: (88 rating, 49 with 2/2 Weapon Expertise)
1% rating = 1% DPS increase (from behind); 15.77 rating/1% DPS

* Critical Strike Rating: (practically, crit stops being effective around 40-50%, but this varies based on the encounter and your talent build)
1% rating = 1% DPS increase; 23.6 rating/1% DPS

Conclusions:
You want Expertise Rating up to the cap (5.6%, 88 points, or 49 with 2/2 Weapon Expertise). Then you want Hit Rating up to your special cap (64 points). After that, Critical Strike Rating gives you more benefit, point for point.

You can speak emotionally or anecdotally all you want; the math doesn't lie.



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Post#14 » Sat Jan 26, 2008 2:26 am


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Gig
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Post#15 » Sat Jan 26, 2008 9:09 pm

thanks for that math summary Lealla, but it's all preference. personally i'd rather have more hit then weap exp. like i mentioned before, a rogues's hit cap is very high...and it will be some time before i invest in any other stats...least of all Weap Exp.

dam...you're a plethora of information. HA HA HA.

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