so.. apparantly rouges arn't broken?

Rogue class discussion.

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Gnomerman
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so.. apparantly rouges arn't broken?

Post#1 » Mon Dec 15, 2008 9:26 am

http://wowwebstats.com/fu2ljo4zv2cxe?s=155719-192665

umm yeah... wtf is this?

rogues doing 12k dps on thaddius
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There is more to life than pew pew you know, like staying out of the fire so you can live to pew pew another day

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Gnomerman
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Post#2 » Mon Dec 15, 2008 9:38 am

http://wowwebstats.com/wkzs2si36j4ni?s=15552-44234

ummm yeah... more of the same

and to be honest, all the rogues that are throwing this rediculousness of dps all have different specs... as in i've seen assassination (not mut mind you), combat, sub (yes... no lies).

so... i think the idea of mut or combat swords is broken.

or maybe you rogues need better gear to scale up. i think a dk in the raid would help though
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Lealla
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Post#3 » Mon Dec 15, 2008 9:45 am

My wife's rouge is broken. She made me go to the store to buy her some more.
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Gnomerman
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Post#4 » Mon Dec 15, 2008 9:56 am

someone needs to do some rogue investigation to see why we don't have multiple rogues in the top 3

instead we have a warrior who thinks he's a rogue?
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There is more to life than pew pew you know, like staying out of the fire so you can live to pew pew another day

Kendalh
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Post#5 » Mon Dec 15, 2008 10:33 am

Since you are so concerned, Gnomer, have at it.

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Gnomerman
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Post#6 » Mon Dec 15, 2008 10:46 am

im working at it. i just don't have an amazing understanding of mele dps. however, i'm tasked to some pretty meh work, so i'll neglect it for the sake of rogues
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There is more to life than pew pew you know, like staying out of the fire so you can live to pew pew another day

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Ecnailla
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Post#7 » Mon Dec 15, 2008 11:36 am

Go watch the video for the mal. fight I posted.... You'll never guess what class is #1 on dps, even before the disk phase.



They arn't getting nerfs. Who said they were broken again? and what exactly was broken about them?

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Gig
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Post#8 » Mon Dec 15, 2008 12:46 pm

i posted this in your other post but i guess it fits here as well.

my best combo was Mut 2-3cp > Snd > mut 4-5cp > rup > mut 4-5cp > envenom. by the time i hit Envenom i'll see my SnD refresh and crit twice with both daggers at an avg. 2-3K each dagger.

this is what i saw in TBC. now in WotLK, i'm seeing gear that doesn't stack really well amoung other stats. being a Mut rogue, you're looking for Agi/Crit heavy gear, however, what i noticed with gear in the XP is that you'll have to sacrifice a lot of another stat to gain another (ie. Exp/Hit Vs. Crit).

the one thing i did notice after respecing and testing gear is the only way a rogue (mut so far) could hang in the meaters (with in the top 6) is having:
a. fast daggers
b. high crit (32% and up unbuff'd)
c. good amount of exp/hit
d. haste (to compliment the fast daggers)

For the time i raided with my rogue i was only able to get #5 on melee friendly fights (with my rogue's current gear).

i would imagine going combat daggers / fist would be better in a raid environment since the gear seems to be geared more towards that spec (or a "fix" in a patch comes first).

it was said Blizz intentionally nerf'd rogues since they would be uber OP in PVP given the gear and talents stacked like in other classes. also, a good simple fix is to increase the white damage rogues put out which would explain why rogue damage got a boost in the PTR.


on my last Thad fight, i was about 4-6k in that fight. Thad does give the melee a boot in the fight (hence the high # damage "dude")
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Gig
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Post#9 » Mon Dec 15, 2008 12:56 pm

Gnomerman wrote:http://wowwebstats.com/wkzs2si36j4ni?s=15552-44234

ummm yeah... more of the same

and to be honest, all the rogues that are throwing this rediculousness of dps all have different specs... as in i've seen assassination (not mut mind you), combat, sub (yes... no lies).

so... i think the idea of mut or combat swords is broken.

or maybe you rogues need better gear to scale up. i think a dk in the raid would help though


Gnomer.......Mut is Assasination. i think you're broken.

and looking at the rogues' gear, they totally out gear our DPS wars as well as our rogues.
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Darksorrow
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Post#10 » Mon Dec 15, 2008 1:02 pm

Gnomerman wrote:someone needs to do some rogue investigation to see why we don't have multiple rogues in the top 3

instead we have a warrior who thinks he's a rogue?


backhanded compliment accepted :wink:

i should've rolled a rogue, but dual wielding 2 handers and wearing plate while charging around is just too much fun
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Gnomerman
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Post#11 » Mon Dec 15, 2008 1:07 pm

gig, your right, they do out gear us, however, i was looking at their dmg breakdown of their abilities, and as a % their envenom is their # source of dmg. with our rogues that is not the case. now, i seriously value what you have to say about this, i was just pointing out my observations. and for the rogues that were assassination, they weren't far enough into it to get mut, but had mor ein that than the other ones.
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There is more to life than pew pew you know, like staying out of the fire so you can live to pew pew another day

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Gig
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Post#12 » Mon Dec 15, 2008 1:13 pm

i looked at the WWS that you posted and from the specs i saw, i only noticed one who was Assassination. the rest were combat daggers and Sub (unless they just recently respec'd).
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Gig
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Post#13 » Mon Dec 15, 2008 1:33 pm

i beleive our remaining rogues use envenom as their #1 finisher (since they are mut). again,it's the gear that is out scaling our rogues.
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Gnomerman
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Post#14 » Mon Dec 15, 2008 1:51 pm

i was looking at why sub, and honor among theves is the reson for sub. if grouped with a high crit caster, or all high crit casters, it gets to the point where they are capable of having a 5 stack of combos in a very short time (5 secconds). allowing for a lot more finishers
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There is more to life than pew pew you know, like staying out of the fire so you can live to pew pew another day

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Brulan
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Post#15 » Tue Dec 16, 2008 12:26 pm

Random Blue Post wrote:Rogue DPS and Honor Among Thieves
Rogues should be doing very high dps if not the highest dps for some fights. If that isn't happening we will buff them (ideally in a way that does not inflate their PvP damage potential).

There is a known bug with Honor Among Thieves where multiple rogues with the ability in one group generate too many combo points. It isn't our intent that this bug make up any PvE dps deficiency.

A similar bug was mentioned months ago where only one rogue in a group would receive combo points frequently if other people in the group received a lot of crits. This is working as intended as far as we can tell.
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