IMPORTANT, all rogues read this

Rogue class discussion.

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Gnomerman
Posts: 1814

IMPORTANT, all rogues read this

Post#1 » Mon Dec 15, 2008 11:50 am

I'm doing some digging, trying to learn rogue mechanics at lvl 80. the highest lvl rogue i have ever played is 34 (my ugly ass dwarf alt)

what i've found out so far.

-in the really high dmg rogues (over 6k dps on patch) envenom was their #1 dmg source (look at the wws i linked for yourself). Their auto attack was their number 2 source of dmg.

-None, I repeat none, were mutilate or combat swords. (this is wotlk boys, not tbc. in tbc those were the way to go, now, its seeming like its not)

-Most all of them used daggers or fist weapons (or both)

-Fist weapons give you a false 5 extra % crit on your tooltip

-You have a 27% chance to miss your white attacks

-You have a 17% chance to "miss" your poisons (they count as spells). your talents and hit rating apply to both poisons and melee.

-Crit rating applies to the crit of your poisons, but your agility does not contribute crit to poisons (its on the spell mechanics).

-You have a base 4.8% crit penalty against a boss... aka you will crit 4.8% less than your tooltip says.



Analysis So Far.

Question? Envenom, it uses charges on your combo points, poisons, both?

I don't quite get it.

However, it is doing amazing damage right now. I don't have a particular spec to go and a rotation to use. I am guessing its build up a 5 dose of envenom, and use it. The trick is to do this in the most energy efficient way as possible, while doing it very fast.

Do i have math to back this up? Well i think WWS doesn't lie and that gives a good sampling of numbers, and that iss raw data. I am interpreting it.

Now you may ask, gnomer, why should we believe your interpretation of data. Well, i'll answer, I get paid in RL to do that (among other things). I make descisions, give comments, and ask questions based on data. using data to make descions is the bread and butter of a good engineer.

So this is my analysis of what i've seen in the past hour. its lunch time, and i should do some work (seeing as i get paid). i'll comment more later

ps, i am not going to sticky the hell out of the rogue forum. i am going to put one up, and only one. when i have a new set of information, i will get rid of this temporary info. if you have thoughts or want to help me on this (as i said, i know very little about rogues), you are welcome to. don't give me the your an idiot you know nothing though... i don't want it, and i do hav data to back what im saying up. unless your throwing 5k+ dps on patch, as a rogue (dark... :p), don't tell me im dumb without data, or math, preferably both.


*ninja edit by bru* Lrn2spell rogue and made it less hurty on the eyes.
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There is more to life than pew pew you know, like staying out of the fire so you can live to pew pew another day

70
Ecnailla
Posts: 3624

Post#2 » Mon Dec 15, 2008 11:58 am

env. does dmg based on combo points and stacks.

1 point and 5 stacks >env> 0 points and 4 stacks

5 poitns and 1 stack> Env> 0 ponit and 0 stacks (only dmg for one point though)

5 points and 5 stacks>Env> max dmg.


They have a couple of things they have to keep up along with env. - namley S&D and rupture. I don't know where the talent is that auto refreshes S&D, but I think most rogues can get it iirc. So...

5 points>S&D>5 points> Rup>5 points> Env.> 5 points> env.> 5 points>rup

something like that? I know thats over simplified, but as gnomer said, I don't play a rogue, just trying to help add to the discussion.

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Gig
Posts: 684

Post#3 » Mon Dec 15, 2008 12:25 pm

the telent you are talking about is Cut to the Chance. when SnD is ticking and you either Envenom or Evis, it refreshes your SnD.
Last edited by Gig on Mon Dec 15, 2008 12:47 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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100
Lealla
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Post#4 » Mon Dec 15, 2008 12:28 pm

I only know Assassination Rogue mechanics from my experience with my Dwarf, who is still 65. However, the intention of the spec seems to be that you keep SnD up from talents (after initially activating it), keep max CP Rupture up, and then Envenom as frequently as possible. You don't even really need a full CP SnD, just enough to allow the talent to trigger, as it automatically pushes it to full CP duration.

On a boss, that might look like Opener*, SnD, Mut, Mut, Rup, Mut, Mut, Env, etc...

*Note, I haven't researched which opener is best for raid bosses where CS doesn't work.
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Ecnailla
Posts: 3624

Post#5 » Mon Dec 15, 2008 12:38 pm

for a mute spec you have to keep a 3 stack of their 51 point talent on you too.

Stask
Posts: 1804

Post#6 » Mon Dec 15, 2008 1:03 pm

Yeah, Mut rogues have to worry about keeping up three DoTs on their rotation: SnD, Hunger for Blood and Rupture. If you have the Cut to the Chase Talent, as Gig mentioned, when you use Envenom or Eviscerate, it refreshes your SnD countdown, which makes it a must-have for raiding Mut rogues.

Dillingerrex and Gig both say they have no problems keeping up all three DoTs on their rotation, but for me, it's not easy. It's definitely doable, surely, but even a momentary distraction or a bad timing of your energy capping out can keep you from refreshing HoB, putting on a new Envenom to refresh your SnD or restacking a 5pt Rupture. Hell, last night on Kel'Thuzad, I was so busy trying to watch my rotations that I completely missed the void zone that spawned under me until it was too late.

Mut's fun but it's alot of work.

I think the priority of DoTs to keep up is like this: SnD > HoB > Rupture. Ideally you want them all up, of course, but if circumstances warrant you having to choose between DoTs, then I think the above order is correct. Gig and Dill, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
"I am unworthy of any respect. True story." -Brulan

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Gnomerman
Posts: 1814

Post#7 » Mon Dec 15, 2008 1:10 pm

im thinking combat dagges/fists is probably the way to go, based on the wws data. im working on builds right now, stask, would you like to be the guinne pig for me and test it out once i get something that aggree's with elitistjerks?
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There is more to life than pew pew you know, like staying out of the fire so you can live to pew pew another day

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