DoT Rotation and Warlock DPS

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Heartwood
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DoT Rotation and Warlock DPS

Post by Heartwood » Thu Nov 08, 2007 10:16 am

I was talking with Amy this morning and she was looking for some advice on improving her dps for raids. I personally don't have a lot of information on warlocks, dot rotation, dps, or specs. Amy is affliction spec I believe and doesn't get a lot of time with two kids to read the forums/guides. Perhaps someone can contact her in-game.

Here is a Raiding Guide For Warlocks that has some very good information on raiding specs and strategy.

This is a recommended raiding spec for warlocks. Shadow Embrace sure is a nice benefit to high-damage outputting mobs like Prince and Gruul, giving survivability to tanks and mana conservation for our healers. As well, since you can cast your DoTs on multiple mobs, fights like High King give Warlocks an awsome damage generation opportunity to have multiple mobs ticking away on fire-and-forget DoTs placed on them. I'm guessing this is what's meant by DoT rotation....but don't take that as gospel from a Warrior.

-Heartwood
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Lealla
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Post by Lealla » Thu Nov 08, 2007 11:35 am

I'm not the best person to comment on Warlock DPS either, but my understanding of DoT rotation is basically the process of making sure that your DoTs remain up on your target as much as possible while going through your cast cycle. The challenge for 'locks is that all of their DoTs have different durations, so you can't just put them on a /castsequence and fire away.
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Animist
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Post by Animist » Thu Nov 08, 2007 1:06 pm

I'm still only 63, but here's what I've found.

DoT rotation, as such, should be a mathematically predictable property. At the hit cap, the chances of your DoTs falling off early are slim to none, and even before then, I generally have a steady flow of damage.

For non-elite mobs I throw on Siphon Life, Curse of Agony, Corruption, Unstable Affliction, and Immolate. Cast in order, they will expire around the same time and that leaves the mob with about 1-2 seconds of life.

For elite mobs, Immolate, UA and Corruption have relatively short durations, so intermix them between longer duration curses. I generally have time for about 3-5 Shadowbolts during a full cycle of dots. For multiple elites with a good tank, I was able to lay on a solid sequence of dots (in expire-at-once order) against every mob in the DPS order, and by the time I was done with #3, #1 was already dead.

For bosses, CoEl or CoS go on instead of CoA. At about 30% (or whenever I think we have about a minute left) I throw on CoD. This made a substantial difference in one of my Underbog runs, where the party ended up wiping with the exception of the holy pally, who was able to heal himself through Ghaz'ran until CoD ticked.
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Palehorse
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Post by Palehorse » Thu Nov 08, 2007 1:08 pm

I mostly skimmed thru the raiding guide, and the fact that there haven't been new replies since mid-Aug makes it a bit outdated.

Since I have a comprehensive exam due Mon I can't devote too much time (ha! who am I kidding ^_^) to this, but offhand I would put this up...

Warlock PvE (raiding) cliffs (more info/detail later):

Best specs are roughly 0/21/40 when you have 20-25%+ crit (roughly around tier5/tier6 gear) and not on imp duty (so you can sacrifice pets)
and some variation of 41/0/18 +2, although I'm not sure what a good demo spec would be offhand (maybe 7/43/11 ?)

UA > Ruin for affliction (sorry Jassie).

ISB improves dot dmg while it's up and crits will refresh the 4 charges

Aggro translates numerically into 1 dmg = 1 pt aggro. when out of melee range (ie casters), you will pull aggro at 130% of tanker.

Soulshatter, Master Demo, Grim Reach and Imp Drain Soul will reduce aggro, as will the subtlety cloak enchant (2% threat I believe)

CoD > CoA assuming it doesn't get pushed off and lasts its full 60 sec duration.

Reapplying Dots after they run their *full duration* maximizes dps

Immolation will still add to your dps even though aff benefits more from shadow than fire

Certain spells (mainly curses I think) have debuff prioritization to keep them from being easily knocked off.

For PvE resistances, there's a 17% hit penalty against mobs 3 lvls higher. Since bosses are 70 (elite) and elite = +3 lvls, bosses therefore are 3 lvls higher against a 70 character.

Therefore it's highly beneficial to get 16% hit (you will always have a 1% chance to miss) or as close to it as you can. Suppression will help for affliction Dots but does nothing for soulshatter or destro spells such as shadowbolt, so hit > suppression, and (arguably) hit > crit until you reach the hitcap.

use leuliers for a dps spreadsheet (sadly there is no more max dps).
http://www.clanyawa.com/viewtopic.php?t=2679

there's a number of enchants available to increase dps/hit/crit etc. Offhand I can think of the sha'tar revered head enchant, aldor/scryer exalted shoulder enchant, weapon glove and spellpower enchant, the health enchant to chest, stam enchant for feet.

resistances generally speaking are unnecessary in PvE, although apparently they're useful or needed for maybe Ilhoof and Leotheras...possibly Illidan.

there's various mods available such as DoT timer, sws stats in addition to the Omen and LaVendetta that we use in raids.

for warlocks tailoring frozen shadowweave + spellstrike are two good sets to have for bonuses (amy already has both). other upgrades obtainable pre-kara would be the girdle of ruination which Elv can craft.

not sure if stopcasting mods/macros will still be usable/useful with 2.3

For Amy specifically I would offhand say replace the ribbon trinket if you don't pvp since you're not going to gain neither honor nor exp as a raider...boost your hit rating as much as possible and reduce suppression points accordingly (once you get revered scryer you can pick up the bloodgem trinket). I would also look into stopcasting/quartz assuming it will still be viable with 2.3 and tinker with your dot rotation to *refresh* dots after the last tick and of course shadowbolt in between dots if there's nothing to refresh.


To Heart: the raiding guide is semi-useful but sadly a bit outdated. The exact points are debateable but
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/cla ... 0000000000
would be a better spec. Several talents such as suppression, malediction can depending on the raid composition and char stats vary. SE I'm hesitant to put 5/5 on because from what I understand the dmg prevented comes AFTER tank mitigation...although even if it didn't the actual bonus doesn't justify 5 points unless you're using them as filler. Aff warlocks may put 1 point in there due to the debuff bonus generated by that imp drain life talent (soul siphon)
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Lealla: that's basically it for dot rotation, although iirc only UA and instant corruption will end at the same time (Global cooldown will affect the others). also of course not many boss fights are simple tank and spank fights; to use Gruul and Prince for example, casters will have to move around at times.

*edit* dot rotation png file removed due to 404 error
Last edited by Palehorse on Thu Nov 08, 2007 4:22 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Palehorse
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Post by Palehorse » Thu Nov 08, 2007 1:19 pm

to ani:

when leveling up hit is less of a worry since outside of dungeons you're not going to run into bosses or elite mobs high above your lvl that often. it's different when you're facing bosses who pack a wallop and who don't drop after 60 seconds sadly =\

dot rotations vary due to things such as movement and raid composition but I prefer putting up UA before immolate

make use of fear/howl of terror (keeping in mind diminishing returns), and as aff drain-tanking or dotting up multiple mobs will be easier ;)

CoS/CoE are better provided either (a) warlock has malediction for the CoS/CoE bonus or there's 1 or more individuals who can take advantage of the bonus. They shine in groups, but for individual dps CoD or CoS are better.

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Animist
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Post by Animist » Thu Nov 08, 2007 4:09 pm

Palehorse wrote:http://img474.imageshack.us/img474/2...tguide2if2.png


404
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Palehorse
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Post by Palehorse » Thu Nov 08, 2007 4:23 pm

damn, that sucks. There's a slim possibility I might've saved a backup file of it in My Pictures, but if not, guess it's back to experimenting or forum searching.

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Animist
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Post by Animist » Thu Nov 08, 2007 5:40 pm

Palehorse wrote:damn, that sucks. There's a slim possibility I might've saved a backup file of it in My Pictures, but if not, guess it's back to experimenting or forum searching.


According to a friend of mine who does genetic computing, figuring out a good warlock DoT rotation over time is probably NP-hard. So I'm writing a genetic optimizer to determine the most fit rotation for a 5-minute fight. I'll post here with the results if anyone's interested.
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Palehorse
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Post by Palehorse » Thu Nov 08, 2007 5:47 pm

true, as someone pointed out it's stuff such as movement during boss fights (ie gruul's shatter), and resists which can mess up rotations.

I regret not looking more at stopcasting macros/quartz before I decided to take my break /cry

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lillix
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Post by lillix » Thu Nov 08, 2007 6:25 pm

i'll be the first to admit i'm not a leet lock. my dps is laughable and i spend half the raid examining the dusty floor of kara. all i'm good for is soulstoning ken, committing suicide via SoC spam and eating babies (if time permits). i'm still learning...

having said that, i'd like to know exactly how you arrived at the conclusion that UA > ruin. is there math involved or is it your personal opinion? if there's substantiation, please link or quote it. better yet, distill and present the salient info... i don't have the patience to sift thru yet another epic DnT thread.
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amanierlyn
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Warlock DPS

Post by amanierlyn » Thu Nov 08, 2007 7:09 pm

Thank you all for your input. All the help and suggestions I get are appreciated. As Heart stated, and in talking to him I didnt mean for it to get put in a post here lol but i'm glad it did. I have been playing wow for quite sometime, but like Heart said I have 2 small children and don't have the time or energy to be the ultimate wow player...I have read over the posts, and will try the suggestions thanks much Amy.....

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Animist
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Post by Animist » Thu Nov 08, 2007 8:05 pm

Here are my findings.

Assumptions:
- Hit-capped Aff warlock with Bane vs. boss-level mob.
- Encounter expected to last between 3 and 10 minutes.

High-level takeaways:
- Over 2 minutes, there will always be at least one time during the boss fight where two dots expire at the same time. Our goal is to minimize the number of such times. "Fitness" indicates the amount of casting where you aren't facing a collision.
- The ideal rotation for DoTs to minimize collisions varies with the expected duration of the fight (but not by much).

3-minute fight: 95% fitness, UA, Imm, CoD, Corr, SL
4-minute fight: 94% fitness, Imm, UA, CoD, Corr, SL
5-minute fight: 94% fitness, UA, Imm, Corr, CoD, SL
6-minute fight: 92% fitness, Imm, UA, SL, Corr, CoD

I might get around to writing a Web-based tool that shows you the expected outcome of a given cast order, including buffer space for SL/Life Tap/Dark Pact.
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Palehorse
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Post by Palehorse » Thu Nov 08, 2007 11:46 pm

To Lilix:
http://www.leulier.com/

With maxed hit (almost unattainable with well balanced gear till hit gems arrive) and reasonable spell damage it takes roughly 25.8% crit for Ruin to beat UA. If you have less than 16% hit, it will of course take more crit to make Ruin exceed UA. I do not see anyone attaining 16% hit and 25% crit while maintaining "reasonable" spell damage any time soon.

One positive note for Ruin that I've not seen many people mention... You can /stopcasting your Shadowbolts to gain additional performance from them, but you cannot /stopcasting your UA due to universal cooldown. I actually switched to a destro build recently to test how much of an effect stopcasting has on my DPS, since with enough spell damage the only thing you cast as Shadow/Destro is COD/SB, and you are getting the full benefit of /stopcasting on nearly every cast, rather than just partially with an affliction build. No numbers yet unfortunately since I am out of town


http://elitistjerks.com/f31/t11799-warl ... gh_dps/p2/ post 35

In another thread on the forum (scroll to the bottom and look under 'similar threads') another thread deals specifically with UA vs Ruin. Elitistjerks is where you go to if you want to see uber wow math geeks at work.



To Amy: np, always happy to help. I once was pretty green even when I was 60 for some time (I have 2 warlocks to thank for giving me some pointers, while having to lurk around various forums for months)....and I'm still learning even now as a 70. only other thing I'd mention is that the next time you respec consider putting a point in shadowburn (destro talent); even though it's more of a pvp spell it's still useful if you have alot of mana and want to finish off a mob a few seconds early (you get back your lost shard if target dies within 5 sec of being damaged, plus a low 30-sec cooldown to boot).

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