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Polarside
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Post by Polarside » Wed Apr 22, 2009 4:31 pm

That post totally went over your head didn't it? And every time I have questions about God, people think I want to fight and thats not the case. I just want an answer from the other perspective.

Anyways... I was just throwing out some random thought I had. I love science and love hearing counterarguments based on creationism (in this case "God" being that deity).
Ecnailla wrote:Your point about what life forms are based on has been looked at. So far carbon based life is all that is generally accepted as probable. Silicone is possible, but again, it is generally accepted that for a silicone species to exist, it would have been created by a carbon based species (ala the matrix) and it could not have evolved on its own.

Claiming that "the universe is so big that there could be like a matter that like we can't even comprehend that like could make life possible on any planet man or even in space...." hasn't really been a serious consideration by anyone.... If you wish to claim that all scientist throughout time have collectivley been "being ignorant" on the topic, that's your choice... It isn't like they haven't considered it, they just found 100% no evidence of it what so ever.
Ummm... You just basically proved what I was talking about. BY OUR UNDERSTANDING... BY WHAT WE COMPREHEND AS LIFE IS SUPPORTED... Thats all this is based on. I also said, in not quite the exact terms and so many words, that as big as this universe is, as rare as the conditions had to be to start life here on Earth, could it had not sparked somewhere else? Why yes I did. But there could also be life elsewhere in this universe NOT based off of anything we know of. If it hasn't been a serious consideration by anyone then thats just being ignorant to the possibility that there are things out there beyond what we can understand.

I simply want answers or thoughts on the matter. I don't want to debate or fight either. I simply enjoy this topic.
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Gnomerman
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Post by Gnomerman » Thu Apr 23, 2009 8:06 am

my thoughts on life.... especially more complicated than ours..... is as follows.

the only type of inteligent... more than we are... life coming to see us is cuz they want to extinguish us, enslave us, or suck our planet dry of recources. any inteligent life that is more advanced than us, but is peaceful, wouldn't want to do any more than observe, cuz its like you wanting to go talk to that noob hunter who is specced 31/24/16. talking with them is a waste of time.

as far as extinguishing/enslaving/devouring our planet, doubtful. by the time they got to earth, they probably would have realized that total destruction and warring is not going to get them very far long ago in the evolutionary chain. renewable energy, or recources (whatever they want to use.. food/energy..... thats about the important ones tbh), is what would allow them to evolve as such. we fight and babble as a race, and we havn't been to the moon in over 30 years. even if one nation ruled the entire planet, it would take us annother 500+ years to get the technology to travel beyond our solar system at a reasonable rate (aka we could get to annother solar system and back in a persons lifetime). as it is now, we can barely pool enough recources to take care of business on this planet.

im assuming other species would have realized that long before they have interstellar travel to the point where they can come here and bother us. this is the main reason im not afraid that advanced inteligent beings outside of our world arn't going to come down and destroy us. probe us? sure. we do that to almost every "lessar" life form on our planet. why wouldn't a more advanced life form do the same to us?

they won't come talk to us openly, share their technology with us... etc, until we are capable of dealing with politics on a galactical lvl... which... im guessing is in 1000 or so years when people start intermating more and more, and we can finally get over the goddam race issue (race... well more specifically racist people, annoy the shit out of me. get over it. slavery in america ended 50 years before my family came from europe, i don't owe you a damn thing. and for the white folks who hate on other races, wtf did they ever do to you? your jeleous you need a tractor instead of a slave? you jeleous that they work harder than you? you jeleous they do better at math than you? get over it, and instead of complaining do something about it) by having everyone look the same (remeber the southpark episode when people were coming from the future, and they were all the same?) which imo is the only way the race issue will ever go away.

for me, its not a question of if, but more of a question of when will they come and say hi.
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Post by Ecnailla » Thu Apr 23, 2009 9:25 am

If we all end up looking the same I'm going to start the NAAPNJ. The National Association for the Advancement of People Named Justin. Thats right, I'm namist.

/raise fist
Justin power!



Question, why is the NAACP only seem to be interested in the advancement one type of colored people - arnt we all "colored"?

I wonder how many people would be mad if I made a magazine called Ivory or made a WET (white entertainment television) cable channel. I'd have nothing negative towards any other race - just the advancement of my race... I'd be (rightfully) labled a racist.


(Gnomer just couldn't let the thread die lol)

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Post by Lealla » Thu Apr 23, 2009 9:25 am

Gnomer, as much as I'd like to believe in the common science fiction concept of a galaxy/universe populated by thousands of intelligent spacefaring alien races, the odds are not very favorable.

Ec is right about one thing: the odds of intelligent life arising on any particular world are really, really small. Even if it did happen many times throughout the universe, the chances of two such events happening within the same million (let alone thousand) years as each other are pretty small too. Then take that and multiply by the chances of two such occurrences in the same region of space. The odds of intelligent life arising, developing interstellar space travel, stumbling across Earth, and communicating with humans in the narrow window of time that we've been around are so astronomically low that if it actually happened I'd be inclined to start believing in God.

We may not be alone in this universe, but unless our science manages to produce a practical and fast method of interstellar or intergalactic travel, the chances of us finding anyone else to share it with are pretty darn low. Regardless, I doubt I'll be alive to see it.


Also, I don't think that complete homogenization is the answer to our cultural issues. Humanity's diversity is one of its greatest strengths. Take that away and we die out to the first disease that targets the universal genotype. The variety of sizes, shapes, colors, and other factors that the human race comes in is such a wonderful thing that it should never be thrown away completely. We can teach people not to hate each other.
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Post by Ecnailla » Thu Apr 23, 2009 11:51 am

Lealla wrote:.. are so astronomically low that if it actually happened I'd be inclined to start believing in God.
/grabs telescope and reinstalls SETI screensaver


j/k :cool:

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Post by Gnomerman » Thu Apr 23, 2009 1:16 pm

yes... the chances are astronomically small, however, the universe is astronomically large. we can't even realize how big it is. i mean, technically it is infinite and goes on forever.

1 in 1 billion chance that there is inteligent life on annother planet? well we have trillions of planets with life on them.

1 in 1 billion squared chance of them having the means to intersellar travel? we still have millions of planets that travel.

if you honestly think that we are the only inteligent life in the universe, and that we were the fastest evolving (or first created), i think you have to stop, and think about how large the universe is. there are an inquantifyable number of stars, with even more planets around them doing amazing things.

ecn, where is your damn superpower to instantly know facts, it would help.

i know the chances are very small, but the universe is infinitly larger than very small.


and ecn... the NAACP is probably the most racist group in existance. on par, if not greater, than the kkk.

the negro college fund is annoying too. if i try to start a college fund for white people... oh boy am i getting sued and am racist. in fact, it really difficult to be a white male now adays. you want help paying for college... hmmm.. you male, white.... hmmm... nothing specifically for you, but if you were anything else, you could get thousands of scholarships. you want a job... hmmm... we are trying to fit our diversity goal... and we already have enough white males.... oh well.. can't hire you cuz your not a minority. yes, you are perfectly qualified, but you don't fit our quota.

that does happen, a lot more than you want to realize. maybe not it good ole boy country, but in corporate america... it does. god forbid you don't hire a person who isn't a white male, they will sue, a white male can't, he has no basis. one day equality will come... but first the white man has to be on the bottom... so says the current way to deal with discrimintation.
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Post by Ecnailla » Thu Apr 23, 2009 1:28 pm

Gnomer, if you had an unlimited number of monkeys typing for eternaty - do you think one of them would eventually write "war and peace"? I don't. I think if you studied what they typed, they would favor one section of the keyboard and there woudln't be enough use of the space bar. This isn't odds like a random number, there are factors that effect the odds and think the factors push against the odds, not for them. I know, I'm talking about the odds, of odds here. But I really don't think we should be here given the odds based on science. When I have time I'll do a complrehensive post about just how high those odds are now. Its not 1 in a billion with a trillion options, its closer one in a trillion with a billion options.

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Post by Polarside » Thu Apr 23, 2009 1:53 pm

Gnomerman wrote:the only type of inteligent... more than we are... life coming to see us is cuz they want to extinguish us, enslave us, or suck our planet dry of recources. any inteligent life that is more advanced than us, but is peaceful, wouldn't want to do any more than observe, cuz its like you wanting to go talk to that noob hunter who is specced 31/24/16. talking with them is a waste of time.
I think if there is an invasion, all we have to do is introduce them to WoW and they would eventually forget why they came. They would all become addicted. Their generals ordering them to attack now and they'd just be like, "Not now sir... NOT NOW!!! I'm mining damnit."
Question, why is the NAACP only seem to be interested in the advancement one type of colored people - arnt we all "colored"?

I wonder how many people would be mad if I made a magazine called Ivory or made a WET (white entertainment television) cable channel. I'd have nothing negative towards any other race - just the advancement of my race... I'd be (rightfully) labled a racist.
I've often wondered the same. But I don't know about the "rightfully" labled a racist. More like ignorantly labled because I wanna stir up some shit so I can keep making money.
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Post by Lealla » Thu Apr 23, 2009 2:45 pm

Ec, we already went there. I don't feel like returning to the first page of this thread again.

Gnomer, I'm not saying it can't happen, but the odds of it happening twice in the same general region of a given galaxy in the same time frame are unbelievably miniscule. We could miss another intelligent race by a mere thousand years (or thousand light years) and never know it existed. There's also the problem of interstellar travel in a useful time frame. We don't know the problem is soluble, only that it might be. If it isn't, then we're forever stuck in this little out of the way solar system, and so is any other race out there, and we'll never meet except for the chance collision of stray radio broadcasts.
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Post by Ginxx » Thu Apr 23, 2009 3:17 pm

Gnomer I just wrote this whole long post about how unbelievable your post was to me and then accidentaly deleted it, which is probably good because there was a decent amount of unnecessary venom in it. But here is the thrust of what I was going to say:

You seriously think it's hard to be a white male? Guess what brother, it's a lot harder to be ANYTHING ELSE.

EDIT - Btw do i think affirmitive action and things like that are a good thing? No. Do i think we should still have them? I dont know, thats a whole different discussion, and very complicated.

However to go around saying its hard to be white and saying that white people need someone to help advance their rights is absurd in the racial context of America in the twenty first century.

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Post by Gnomerman » Thu Apr 23, 2009 3:56 pm

if i was anything other than a white male, i wouldn't have had to pay a dime to go to college where i went to school. if i was anything other than a white male, i would have not had to spend 9 dedicated months, dozens of applications/interviews, and lots of pain in the ass time preparing for it.

I never said that white males need help. we don't. it is not fair that EVERY other possible combination of race/gender/(insert whatever you want) has a leg up. affirmitave action is overboard. that is what im saying.

there should be no diversity quotas. that in itself is racist, and should be illegal. everyone should have truely equal rights. not to single out white and black man can publicly talk about race, and its someone playing the race card, but its respected, and not ridiculed. a white man talks publicly about race, and he is probably going to get sued.

more affirmitive action BS

funny story is the miss usa contest. the miss cali chick says that she doesn't approve of gay marriage. she loses said contest, and gets publicly flamed because she told people what she believed. she said nothing about how being gay is wrong, or them getting married. i believe she stated something about the government shouldn't stop it, it should be your own choice.

now, i have nothing absolutly wrong with people being gay, or wanting to be married. you want marriage? good for you, im petrified by the idea. im sure there are lots of married people who are like good for you, good luck with that, it sucks.

this is the problem about affirmitave action. you can speak out negativly about the norm, but you can't do the same about a minority, cuz your a racist, or sexist, or whatever. you go out and preach how the white man has you down, you get put up on a billboard and idolized, you talk about how the black man is a (insert something that isn't very racist at all, and isn't terrible to call someone in reality) and you are portrayed as someone as evil as hitler.

that is what pisses me off about it.
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Post by Ginxx » Thu Apr 23, 2009 4:11 pm

You are calling for equality gnomer. That is honorable and hopefully one day we will get there. I think we are moving in that direction. My point is that at the moment white people have a lot more of a 'leg up' then any other race, period. In a country where things truly were equal yes it would be unjust to give anyone a leg up. But we do not live in that country. You want to talk about difficulty getting a job?

Unemployment US Census 2001 02 03

White Men, 20 years and over 3.7% 4.7% 5.0%

Black Men, 20 years and over 8.0% 9.5% 10.3%

Now are you really gonna tell me its harder for a white man to get a job then a black man? Or is unemployment higher for black people for some other reason....

PS - Ever been pulled over for driving while white?

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Post by Ecnailla » Thu Apr 23, 2009 5:58 pm

Meh, I don't think is hard being white. I think its dumb what others get away with and find it funny to think how mad they would get if my race did the exact same thing. I think it is dumb that I could get 100% of my college paid for because i'm 1/16th redskin. (we are all native americans... I don't have redskin, but I wasn't able to grow facial hair till I was 20-22 and still can't grow anything that looks like a full beard - but if I said, I'm facial hair deprived race, no one would know what I was talking about - but as a result I could get my education paid for).

nigger (yea, I said it) is a funny word to me too. I understand how it could be painful to someone who was a slave or lived in the heat of the civil right movment and was called that as a negative term for the most of their life... but no one in their 20 or 30s had to deal with that and so I'm sorry, but you don't get to be offended. I, personally, think using it openly and in jokes takes power away from it. And once you start using it and turn around and say no other race can use it... you have entered the "i'm a retard" zone. (Using "let me ax you a question.." is in the same zone).

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Post by Stask » Thu Apr 23, 2009 9:16 pm

Oh dear god, the topic has drifted to being about race. The ninja who hijacked my thread has just stabbed me with one of his doku-covered throwing stars sticking out of my back and is now standing over my still-cooling corpse whispering "Domo arigato, gaijin" with his rictus grin obscured by his black hood...

Only thoughts I'm gonna offer about race are these: 1) Affirmative action isn't designed to be in operation forever, this was mentioned in a recent US Supreme Court. I'm not gonna debate whether it's a good policy, it's too complicated for me right now. 2) I don't care about your skin color, your sexual orientation, your gender or the size of your checkbook. If you're not an asshole to me, then I won't be an asshole to you.

...Unless your name is Palehorse or Zeph. Then all bets are off. ;-)
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Post by zephar » Thu Apr 23, 2009 9:40 pm

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